[00:00:00] Veronica: Hello, and welcome to the quantum spin by HKA. I’m Veronica Combs. I’m a writer and an editor here at the agency. I get to talk every day with really smart people working on really fascinating subjects, everything in the Quantum industry, from hardware to software. On our podcast, we focus in on quantum communication, and by that I don’t mean making networks safe from hacking or entangling photons over long distance, but talking about the technology.

[00:00:26] How do you explain these complicated concepts to people who don’t have a background in science and engineering but want to understand all the same?

[00:00:36] Veronica Combs: I’m back today talking to Professor Dr. Helena Liebelt. She is a full professor of computer science at the Deggendorf Institute of Technology.

[00:00:44] She’s also in charge of a new master’s program that focuses on Quantum and HPC. So I’m so happy to have this chance to talk with you, Professor Liebelt. 

[00:00:52] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: Thank you for having me. 

[00:00:54] Veronica Combs: We were just talking about how you have this brand new program at the university and it sounds, if I spoke German and were in Europe, I would certainly sign up for this program.

[00:01:02] So tell us about this new program you’ve developed. 

[00:01:05] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: Well, lucky you, it’s in English.

[00:01:07] Veronica Combs: Now’s my chance.

[00:01:11] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: for everybody who’s listening in, and I’m sure there will be many if you’re interested in quantum computing and HPC overall, this is your chance because the application window is currently open. Oh great! So we started this program about three years ago and I’m coming from the industry, right?

[00:01:29] So I’m not your typical professor. But I have about 20 years of industry experience in HPC and various informatics, computer science roles in managing management roles. And what I always see when visiting data centers, when visiting large customers who are dealing with emerging technologies, it’s always, who’s going to do it.

[00:01:52] And it always comes down to understanding the basics, the general understanding of the topic, but also the practical application. So the program we built is summarizing and encompassing exactly that. So I’m extremely proud to have sponsors and partners in the industry who are working with our students on the regular to give them exactly that, the insight, the view into how industry is working and what industry is actually needing and what the research facilities are needing.

[00:02:23] Veronica Combs: I know all of this quantum hardware seems very new and strange, but if you think about the history of classical computing, some of these challenges are familiar. Do you agree? 

[00:02:32] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: If you look at quantum computing, You have this chip, the QPU. This is the basis. Everybody is talking about the QPU, which is cool, understandably, so somebody has to develop and build it.

[00:02:42] But there’s so much more. You also need all the electronics and cooling and all that. Just look at the quantum computers pictures that everybody is, you know, the famous golden shiny things. What is it though? It’s just a freezer, basically. Yeah. More or less. So now think about HPC, the conventional computer.

[00:03:04] And we had this exact same experience about 80 years ago. When you think about the first computer systems. There was cabling all over and cooling and, you know, all of that stuff. So the issue, what we are facing with quantum systems is similar. What we need to do is miniaturize and integrate.

[00:03:26] To make them accessible. We have this experience already. We know how to do it, but again, who’s going to do it? 

[00:03:33] Veronica Combs: Yes. And this upskilling challenge means we need people who can work with quantum hardware and quantum software, right?

[00:03:39] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: Yes, so next level, like the third level, you need to build compilers. You need to build all the infrastructure. And the fourth level, you need to build the actual applications, right?

[00:03:49] So just because you build a QPU, it does not mean your code is going to run on it. So you have to invest time, you have to invest brainpower, manpower to doing that, to building that. And then on top of it, you need to have people who are actually able and capable of using it. Many, many levels. And with our program, we are actually starting to build the workforce to be able to support all that.

[00:04:12] Veronica Combs: And you’ve already graduated a couple of classes from the program. 

[00:04:15] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: That is true. I’m a very proud mother. Released a bunch of our alumni into the world. And as you can imagine, this is a much needed drop in the ocean.

[00:04:29] Veronica Combs: And you mentioned that you have advisors from the industry as part of this program. What do you hear from them in terms of what they need from a workforce or the immediate gaps that they want to fill? 

[00:04:39] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: Yes. So there are two things on how you can go about it.

[00:04:43] One is you build, establish a new master’s or bachelor’s program and start building from the ground up. The second option is you re-educate your existing workforce, and you can manage a lot positions that you need to fill with that workforce, because you can focus on specific skills that you build up, right?

[00:05:04] So this is classical upskilling, but it’s just gonna solve one problem probably, or a couple of problems, but not all that you need. What I’m hearing from the industry, they’re doing both. Right now, because they have no choice, to be honest. They’re building up their existing workforce, your physicists, your computer sciences, right?

[00:05:22] A computer scientist is brilliant in developing code, but has absolutely no idea, probably, about quantum mechanics. And let’s face it, physicists are great and they will tell you that, but they’re probably not the best software developers. You need some understanding of both areas to be comfortable and successful in this field.

[00:05:43] And this is what I’m hearing from the industry itself.

[00:05:46] Veronica Combs: Obviously you’re a professor right now, but before you worked in the industry for Intel, I think people often get set on one path and don’t diverge, but there’s so much value in building those bridges and bringing one set of experiences to another setting, another realm.

[00:06:01] Tell me about what you did in industry before coming to academia. 

[00:06:04] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: I was always interested in change, and how people react to things. 

[00:06:10] For me, it was always interesting to see how specific groups of people reacted differently and what can be done to manage that.

[00:06:18] And I personally love change as such. I had a lot of changes in my career as well. For the, let’s say rule of thumb, every three to five years, I’m trying to change what I’m doing to find something new because I’m a builder, a maintainer. I’ve done a lot of jobs. I’ve been doing game design, computer games, for example.

[00:06:37] So that was fun. I’ve been doing a classical application, building like software development. I’ve been doing sales. I’ve been doing marketing. All over the place, basically, but kind of in the same directions, building new technologies up, finding what’s coming up, those emerging things, not the boring stuff, everybody talking about.

[00:06:58] But something that will be important and will be coming up. Let’s say, the master’s program we built, it’s already active, right? So now people are starting to build them. We are already there, we already have the experience. And this is how I’ve built my career as well.

[00:07:14] Always trying to find these new things that are exciting. But to be fair, there is not always sunshine and rainbows, right? When you are interested in change, you have to be aware that not everything is going to work out. This is the other thing I’m always trying to share with my students is don’t be afraid of change.

[00:07:33] Take informed risks and build a pipeline of things you want to do. Some of them will fail and some of them will be awesome. 

[00:07:41] Veronica Combs: I know that you have a lot of experience in strategic change management. And that is to my perspective, a big part of this quantum shift, right? Like what we have works, it’s okay. This quantum computing seems really risky.

[00:07:54] You know, what are the benefits to me? How have you used your own experience and change management  to introduce quantum computing to people who maybe are a little skeptical? 

[00:08:03] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: Yeah. 

[00:08:03] So the answer to that is quite simple.

[00:08:06] I’m not selling people on quantum computing. Actually, I’m quite opposed to that. So there’s overhyping that is happening right now. What we need is a clear statement that Yes, this is an emerging technology and yes, it can be and will be awesome, but it will not be the golden solution, the holy grail to solve all our problems.

[00:08:28] This is not how it’s going to work. And the second thing is we need to be patient. Right now everybody and their grandmother is talking about it, right? But we need to be patient to find the solution, but also to find the problems, so quantum computing, you can compare it to a very specialized tool.

[00:08:46] Let’s say you have a screw. You can put it in the wall with a hammer. It’s not going to be pretty, right? Same applies here. You have to find the specific problems to solve with this specialized piece of hardware. And for this, we need some time and we need, again, to be patient with ourselves and our expectations.

[00:09:05] And, so coming back to the question on how to apply change management, Communication and managing expectations is a huge part of it, I think. This is where we as the scientific community and industry have not done a particularly good job, to be honest. This quantum computing things became a bit overhyped, but for all the wrong reasons.

[00:09:26] So the expectations are high, and, we need to be mindful of that so my understanding is, yes, it will come and it will be soon here for practical use. But again, not for everything.

[00:09:40] Veronica Combs: One thing that I have heard people talking about more now is the role of HPCs and quantum together. How do you think about how the two technologies work together and complement each other?

[00:09:50] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: We mentioned the master’s program already. It’s not quantum computing, but it’s quantum computing in HPC for a reason. Going forward, what I expect to happen, and I think I have a huge backing from the industry and academia on that, it will go hand in hand. You will still require your traditional classical systems to operate the quantum system to get meaningful answers out of that, but you also will use the quantum system for specific problems with the additional aid of HPC.

[00:10:20] So there is a significant overlap. 

[00:10:22] Veronica Combs: Right, right. And I was talking to a reporter the other day and the question was, what’s the quantum chip and when is it going to be ready and who’s using it and who’s making it. And I’m not really sure we’re at that stage quite yet.

[00:10:33] How do you think about chips and quantum computers at this point in time? 

[00:10:37] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: Excellent question. I love it.  So again, we are at the stage where we were, let’s say, during the world war two, where we had specific systems and computer designs on both sides of the argument, right?

[00:10:49] Both sides of the war developed kind of simultaneously because obviously people were not exchanging ideas at that point. But right now what happens is we have different technologies, right? I can build your qubit from many things, and frankly, we don’t know which technology will make the race.

[00:11:06] The second one that you already mentioned, you have to be able to mass produce what use is it going to be if I just hand tinker it. And it works for one person and one specific lab. That’s fine. That’s, that’s a nice pilot, right? Proof of concept. Wonderful. But you have to be able to mass produce.

[00:11:22] Look at what happened with the rise of PC. In the 80s, what happened with the PC? You have democratized the technology. You basically infused brainpower from the industry because you didn’t have to be IBM to produce a cable, right? You opened it up and you had a lot more ideas of perspective of innovation, such, but you also opened it up to the little man, right?

[00:11:48] Also has brilliant ideas and innovation. So that also helped in building it up. It’s not just the chip itself. It’s which technology is going to be, we don’t know, and also how to mass produce it, which is not as easy as it sounds. There are obviously some technologies, like, let’s say, the ones we are quite familiar with, like silicon, right?

[00:12:09] We’ve been doing it for 60 years, we know how to deal with that, but there are also other things that might work out as well. So let’s give it a few more months. 

[00:12:18] Veronica Combs: Right. Right. I’d like to talk a little bit more about the master’s program. How do you attract students? 

[00:12:23] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: Actually, getting the students is not the issue and I’m not for mass producing. From about a thousand applicants, we take about 35. Oh, wow. Yes, because I really take care of my students with my team, with my fellow professors.

[00:12:38] So we get them the best, so we obviously take the best from those thousand and make them better. 

[00:12:44] Veronica Combs: Is it a two-year program? 

[00:12:45] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: It’s one and a half years. Can be extended to two. So two very intensive semesters in theory. And then you have a semester for your individual work, like theoretical work and your master thesis. I’m also, as I mentioned, very big on industry collaboration.

[00:13:01] So the program is set in the way that you have very intensive two semesters with courses from Wednesday to Friday, full day, very intensive coursework. But you also have Monday and Tuesdays off to work in the industry. And we place our students with our industry and research partners. So what they learn in theory from us, they can experience hands on.

[00:13:22] Veronica Combs: Right, right. Are there any thesis projects that stand out in your mind or any that you remember particularly from the last couple of years?

[00:13:29] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: Oh, we have so many. One of them, which we publish quite a lot right now, which has not been discussed much, yet, because it’s so challenging is the quantum fluid dynamics and also quantum AI.

[00:13:41] So one of the things we are doing, for example, is you look at this wonderful art behind me and, let’s say you have another art piece and you want to understand is it authentic? To do so right now is very challenging. We develop an algorithm to certify the authenticity of art using AI and upgrading it to quantum systems to make it more efficient.

[00:14:05] Same technology, by the way, applies to medical scans, to fake money, you know, you can apply it in many directions. This is something I think is very cool. 

[00:14:15] Veronica Combs: Wow. That is very cool. And the program is not so much about engineering. It’s algorithms and computer science, is that correct? 

[00:14:23] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: More application focused. So we are not building the QPUs, but we are letting our students, well, we get them the understanding on how they work so they can get the goodness out of this QPU, when they’re working with it, you have to understand it. But we are getting them to be able to. Develop applications to develop the upper levels, but also to manage it. Some of my students are very heavy on the hardware side. They’re basically, assembling and getting quantum systems up to life.

[00:14:53] So they’re building those data centers who are supposed to house these quantum systems, and it’s not as simple as it sounds. You have a lot of interference, you have to make it happen between the quantum system and HPC and so on. This is quite a new field for everybody. 

[00:15:08] Veronica Combs: Right. I’ve been reading a lot about all the investments the German government has been making in quantum. And obviously lots of German companies are investing in quantum themselves, whether it’s proof of concept or developing internal talent.

[00:15:20] What stands out to you about the German economy? What’s happening in Germany right now?

[00:15:25] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: If you look at Germany as such, look at the resources we are having. We don’t have much oil, we don’t have diamond mines, we don’t have gold. What we have is the brains. This is basically the natural resource in our country and we are trying to use it to the best of our abilities with the support of governments. There’s a lot of investment going on actually utilizing this new technology and building this new technology. If you look at HPC, Germany also has been very much at the forefront of many developments in HPC. Most of the codes come from here, from Fraunhofer, from Max Planck and other facilities. And we are keeping up this tradition going forward with the new emerging technologies.

[00:16:05] You already mentioned plenty of investments. And this is true, but it does not only go into research investments. There are plenty of investments also in the industry, if you look at the larger corporations who are, initially coming from Germany or are sitting here, they’re also investing in this technology to make it available to them to gain this market advantage to get this competitive advantage as soon as they can, because let’s face it, in the current economy, you can use any advantage you can get.

[00:16:36] Veronica Combs: That’s so true. Do you have any advice for people looking to break into the quantum industry? 

[00:16:42] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: Yes, there are plenty of resources available. And as I mentioned before, you can start your education from ground up. But you can also do the upscaling route and pretty much, all the big companies are offering courses, are offering trainings, resources, on different levels and also access to systems, and also access to simulators.

[00:17:02] So you can get your feet wet, right? And then you can still decide if you want to go into this and on what level you are interested in to actually do something meaningful. But the first advice is look on the internet, there are so many resources available already.

[00:17:18] I can point you, for example, to our friends from IBM. So they have courses on that. The summer schools, for example, I love them.

[00:17:25] Veronica Combs: And, any advice for folks wanting to get into your program? 

[00:17:29] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: Be curious, apply. You obviously have to have good grades, but that’s not everything.

[00:17:35] What I need is curiosity and the wish, not just the ability, but also the wish to face harder problems to invest your time and get through this. And I think the reward is quite amazing. 

[00:17:50] Veronica Combs: Yes. Yes. Two years of hard work and then a new adventure in industry or academia or wherever the quantum path takes you.

[00:17:57] And you mentioned that the application window is open now. So if people are interested, they can apply?

[00:18:01] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: They have about a month. You have to be quick. Okay. All right. And international applicants are more than welcome. So the course is in English. Though I have to say, you have to take a German language course because I think this is also important to get yourself familiar with the culture, to be able to stay in the country.

[00:18:17] Because as I said, brains is the only resource we really meaningfully have in this country. So the more time I invest in building up, the more I want to keep you 

[00:18:27] Veronica Combs: I, thank you so much for all your time, telling us about your work in the industry and academia and this fantastic program and your advice on change management. I’ll certainly be passing it along to, to other folks who are unsure about quantum and, to help them see the potential.

[00:18:43] So thank you so much for your time. 

[00:18:44] Prof. Dr. Helena Liebelt: Thank you for having me. 

[00:18:45] Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Quantum Spin by HKA. You can find all episodes on our website, hkamarcom.com. Of course, you can find us in all your favorite podcast platforms as well. Follow us on LinkedIn under HKA Marketing Communications if you have an idea for a guest, or if you’d like to be on the podcast yourself, you can reach me on LinkedIn, Veronica Combs, or you can go to our website and share your suggestion via the contact us page. Thanks for listening. Talk to you soon.