[00:00:00] Veronica: Hello, and welcome to The Quantum Spin by HKA. I’m Veronica Combs. I’m a writer and an editor here at the agency. I get to talk every day with really smart people working on really fascinating subjects, everything in the Quantum industry, from hardware to software. On our podcast, we focus in on quantum communication, and by that I don’t mean making networks safe from hacking or entangling photons over long distance, but talking about the technology.

[00:00:26] How do you explain these complicated concepts to people who don’t have a background in science and engineering but want to understand all the same?

[00:00:34] Today I’m talking with Steve Suarez. He is the Chief Executive Officer of Horizon X. Thanks for joining us today, Steve.

[00:00:42] Steve: Thank you. I’m happy to be here and talking to you and your listeners.

[00:00:45] Veronica: Your 30 year career has taken you around the globe. And I’ve actually been following you since you started HorizonX. Almost two years ago, right?

[00:00:52] Steve: Two years ago. Yeah. Next month it’ll be two years. It’s crazy how time flies.

[00:00:56] Veronica: Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. So you are working to help big companies execute new business models and take advantage of opportunities so that’s a challenge in any context. What leadership skills do you think companies need to succeed with quantum computing in particular?

[00:01:14] Steve: I really focus on all emerging tech. McKinsey has this model that they talk about the three horizons of innovation. I don’t know if you ever heard of it, Veronica. So horizon one, horizon one is incremental innovation. That’s the innovation everybody knows really well.

[00:01:30] So that’s your day-to-day constant improvement. 1%, 2%, 3% better. I would say about the majority, actually everybody probably does that. I don’t know if they do it well or not, but they do that. And they, there’s always opportunity for improvement. Then there’s the horizon two innovations.

[00:01:48] Those are innovations that you bring, new technology, not new to the world, but new technology to your companies. Things like AI or blockchain type of technology, and you apply ’em to problems that you have today, but you don’t have it as an existing tool set within your company. And then there’s the horizon three innovations that’s completely disruptive innovation, bringing new technology that doesn’t exist.

[00:02:13] This is stuff you’re creating. And so as you go up to scale into these different horizons, it gets riskier and it gets costlier. You’re present, you need to focus on horizon one. Your future- you need to focus on horizon three. And so it’s, you gotta be a bit ambidexterous and look at both to have a good portfolio.

[00:02:32] You don’t want too much in one side of the concentration and too little on the other because then you jeopardize your future like Kodak or Nokia or some of these companies. But you don’t want to just focus too much on the future because it’s risky. You’re not gonna get value for five years.

[00:02:49] Steve: And I don’t know about you Veronica, I, I’ve never heard of an organization that’ll wait five years before you’ll show, start showing some value. And hence, and a lot of people don’t know this, that’s why my company’s called HorizonX because what we do is we work in all three horizons to help companies. So my background in helping transformation, my background in helping in emerging tech, and then also thinking about the future. So you bring up quantum computing, that’s what you know I really like looking at what’s coming and how do I help companies prepare for what’s coming. It’s a bit of a long answer.

[00:03:22] Sorry Veronica, that I wanted to go on, but it just helps set some context.

[00:03:26] Veronica: No, definitely. That was one of my questions, where did the name of your company come from? Yes. Good to know. Good to know. And I think, so horizon one, the incremental, that’s the safest, right? Because it’s small stakes, it’s important, like you said, but just small stakes so one of your challenges, I’m sure, is getting people to even think about a third horizon, right?

[00:03:47] Completely disruptive technology.

[00:03:48] Steve: Yeah. ’cause when push comes to shove and there’s a lot of cost challenges, the first thing to go are these five year projects. Everybody’s thinking quarter by quarter, but a very good organization is preparing for the future, but doing what they need. And so the way I see it is if I can give you savings in horizon one, that gives me enough money for you to give me, to focus on horizon two.

[00:04:11] The horizon two, anywhere between six months to two years, you start getting that value. Now you become a believer. And then that gives me enough money to do horizon three stuff. So I usually have a good 70-20-10 where I tell people to focus their time so that you know you have a good balance. Some people.

[00:04:30] Steve: Unfortunately, and this is misguided, say, oh, I only want horizon three. That’s all the innovation I’m doing is horizon three. And it goes back to nobody’s gonna wait five years for you to show value. Those are the departments or the people that actually get let go on a downturn very quickly.

[00:04:46] Veronica: Sadly, but very quickly. Yes, exactly. So I’m guessing that horizon two would be like the subject matter experts, if you’re looking to solve existing business problems with new technology, that would be the people who are, have been doing this for a while and understand the constraints of the business or the priorities.

[00:05:04] Steve: Yep. That’s where you marry up the subject matter experts with the people who understand this new technology. And I think Stanford has a very good, it’s called the Knowing Doing gap. Marrying those two up so that you have that balance. It can’t just be, Hey, I’m bringing people in from the outside and they’re gonna change everything.

[00:05:21] They just don’t understand how to navigate organizations. They don’t know, where the subject matter experts know. Exactly what the root causes are, where the problems are. The lower level, the closer they are to the action, even better. And then you marry them with the technology and what the technology’s capable of.

[00:05:42] I think that’s where the magic happens.

[00:05:44] Veronica: So who’s leading the charge in at, for the horizon three work? Is that the CEO, or no?

[00:05:52] Steve: So the CEO sets out the vision. If the CEO and the board don’t think it’s important, it’s not gonna happen. And I could tell you that if you don’t have support at the top of the house, it doesn’t matter how strong you are as an intrapreneur, you’re just not gonna have the buy-in and it’s gonna, your job is hard enough.

[00:06:10] To try to get everybody to mobilize, trying to convince people above you that they need to do this, it’s just not worth it. And my suggestion, if you don’t have that buy-in, I would suggest you go somewhere else where you do have that buy-in and they’re gonna value you more.

[00:06:23] Veronica: A few years ago I worked on a grant funded public health project, and the idea was to track asthma data and link it to the weather or a particular neighborhood environment.

[00:06:33] Like lots of trees, no trees, interesting, urban, more rural. My experience definitely matches with that. The groups whose leadership was on board, we got through, but there was a lot that didn’t. And it just seemed like good ideas die in email

[00:06:47] Has that been your experience too?

[00:06:49] Steve: That’s what kind of separates my firm and my company from other firms, because it’s not something I read in a textbook. It’s not something I’m consulting you on.

[00:06:57] ’cause I saw other people do it. I’ve been part of that movie. I’ve got the battle wounds to see what doesn’t work. And there’s a lot that doesn’t work. And what really separates innovation, it’s not the ideas – ’cause people have relatively a lot of the same ideas. It’s how well they execute.

[00:07:13] It’s just a matter of getting out there, being persistent. And it takes a lot of persistence. And I can tell you people think innovation, oh, it’s all glorious and shiny. It’s learning how to deal with politics. It’s learning how to get people to influence.

[00:07:27]  But the magic happens when you actually deliver something and you get all these people that the glimmer in their eyes like, oh my God, I was able to do this. ’cause most people at work are just bored doing the same thing over and over again. If you could show some people how to use this technology to do some fantastic stuff, they’re never gonna go back to that.

[00:07:46] Veronica: And I do remember it was just showing up every day and following up and looking for those times so you could see someone face to face. And it’s the boring but important part of innovation work, I think I would call it.

[00:07:58] Steve: You said something very important, showing up. You don’t understand. Just showing up every day.

[00:08:04] yo’re already getting a whole bunch of points on the board. And then it’s just gonna, and you’re gonna have a hard skin because it’s not easy. I can tell you being an entrepreneur is not easy. But it’s about consistency and showing up and continuing forward.

[00:08:17] Veronica: Yes, Yes.

[00:08:18] So you spent 19 years at HSBC. Part of your time was the global head of innovation. And it sounds like your work was building sort of the infrastructure to make sure innovation could actually turn into business results. Yeah. How did that, how did you manage that?

[00:08:32] Steve: I learned very quickly that I could try to be innovative myself. I could make myself more productive. And, you’re working 50, 60 hours a week. That’s good benefit, right? What I realized through the power of multiplication is that if I could make thousands of people 10% better, I could make hundreds of thousands of people, 10% better get them to buy into a vision, to get behind the stuff that I was doing.

[00:08:59] That’s where I would have real impact. So when you have a bank that is 230,000 people, 64 countries, if you have a 1% impact on anything. That’s massive,

[00:09:12] Veronica: right?

[00:09:12] Steve: Innovation isn’t about how do you make yourself better, it is how do you get out there and make your community better?

[00:09:20] How do you educate them? How do you give them the tools that they need so that they can actually be 10, 15% better? Your job is to get out and facilitate and create an environment where other people can come up and use their ideas, use their expertise, combine them with technologists and there’s gonna be a lot of failure and you gotta deal with that failure.

[00:09:42] But there’s gonna be little small parts of success and you only need about 5% or 2% of things to, to succeed at that scale to really have a big impact. And I think people focus on the failures and, Hey, look, we tried that. It didn’t work, whatever. But a lot of times when you have these big successes and we won Customer of the Year awards from Google and we won a lot of awards outside of the organization, and I think that’s a testament to the type of work and the quality of people that want to work with you.

[00:10:13] Veronica: Everything that you’re describing I think is really reflected in a recent blog post that I saw from HSBC and they’re rolling out a quantum education platform across I don’t know if it’s a whole company, but a lot of people at the company, which does exactly what you described, empowered them to look at quantum and understand it enough to see how the bank could use it to develop a competitive edge or improve processes or whatever.

[00:10:35] Steve: Exactly. I think that’s the key. If you educate people and let them know the capabilities and what can happen, don’t underestimate human creativity and what they actually can apply it to. Sometimes, you don’t know what you don’t know as far as what you can get done, but if you put these tools in people’s hands, they’ll surprise you.

[00:10:55] Veronica: Yes. Yes, that’s true. I also noticed that your team at HSBC was part of the IBM Quantum Accelerator. What was that like?

[00:11:02] Steve: This was many years ago.

[00:11:04] I put pen to paper to get that contract signed. That was actually, it was an interesting experience because Arvin was so excited. The CEO of IBM was so excited that he actually came down and he was physically there when we signed and we shook hands. Wow. And I put a nice big picture on LinkedIn standing next Arvin, and and, spent

[00:11:23] some time listening to them, a fascinating and incredibly smart individual. Listen, we didn’t have that capability, and so the acceleration part was how do we accelerate this knowledge? How do we get access to ideas? How do we get access to people? How do we get access to hardware? How do we get access to software?

[00:11:43] And it was an easy way especially since IBM was a vendor of the bank back then or still is. And it was an easy way for us to really get educated on it and move quickly and that was the whole purpose behind that. Now I just want to be clear, Veronica, I’m not, I don’t work for the bank anymore.

[00:12:02] I’m not speaking on behalf of the bank. I’m just giving you my historical why we did what we did. Yes.

[00:12:07] Veronica: Yes, of course. So I was reading your LinkedIn page before our conversation and you post a lot and lots about leadership and I’ve seen you posted some kind sort of quantum explainers, which is also very cool.

[00:12:19] Yeah, you have 40,000 followers. How did you build up so many folks to share your ideas with?

[00:12:25] Steve: It’s funny, early on I was playing with different social media. And what I found was like with Facebook and some of these other things, depending on how many connections you have, will give you the exposure.

[00:12:37] Early on LinkedIn, I would put out a post and I remember my first post was a JP Morgan run I did, I was with HSBC, and it went I got like 80 people that liked it. I didn’t even have 80 people. I don’t know. You know what, back then, right? But the fact is that it went beyond my sphere of influence.

[00:12:56] And the people I knew, I actually liked that because part of it was, oh, I can use this to get out my message and talk to people. And so oftentimes getting communications out within your organization, you had to get approval, you had to do this, you had to do that. And I was never a very good follower of the rules of what I can and cannot do.

[00:13:20] So I used LinkedIn to get out my message and kind of talk to, and I found it to be an excellent tool. It’s been many years that I’ve been doing it.

[00:13:28] Why I am doing the videos, ’cause I’m trying to, every two weeks do the kind of small explainer videos. Majority of people don’t know about quantum. If I could make it simple and easy for people to understand, plus LinkedIn is also favoring that vertical video content to distribute more. So I’m also trying to change with LinkedIn’s algorithm and what they’re trying to do.

[00:13:50] There’s ups and downs, you always have your critics, but if you are worried about what critics say, you’re never gonna show what you can offer to the world.

[00:13:58] Veronica: That’s so true. That’s so true. And I noticed one of your quantum explainers, you’re on the beach and you had palm trees in the background, and that, that’s a good way to attract anyone’s attention regardless

[00:14:07] Steve: of the subject. That’s me here in Miami, yes, actually I did that right before the sun went down and you could see it looks calm and relaxed, but I could tell you I was like trying to rush through it to capture before the light and the sunset.

[00:14:18] Oh right,

[00:14:19] Veronica: right.

[00:14:20] Lots of your posts about leadership, understandably. And you highlighted the importance of saying, I don’t know, but let’s figure it out together. And my mom was a fifth grade teacher and she said that she would always say that to her students if she didn’t actually know or if her students got something, corrected her on something she got wrong.

[00:14:37] She would recognize that to encourage, exploration, speaking up in the back and forth. And I feel like with quantum, every other day I have to say, I don’t know, but I’ll find out or I’ll, I’ll talk to someone and get a better understanding. So do you think that’s a barrier to adoption or is that just an ongoing challenge that we all have to say,

[00:14:54] I don’t know, but I can find out.

[00:14:55] Steve: It’s gonna be an ongoing challenge. If anybody tells you that they do know, I don’t, I would question that I’m still learning and people often when I get on stage or get on podcasts, they’re like, oh, Steve, he’s a, a quantum expert. And sometimes I. I correct them and sometimes I just, the reality is in this field, there’s

[00:15:16] there’s not a lot of people that truly can call themselves expert in all of it. I think there’s some expertise you develop in some of it. And I’m using that intersection between quantum leadership change management transformation. I’m trying to use what I feel I bring to the table and apply it to this industry.

[00:15:36] And it needs it. It could be AI, it could be quantum, it could be whatever, but the fundamental first principles are still there, and it’s about getting things done, executing, bringing people along with you. I just happened to be very interested in quantum, and I got interested in quantum many years ago which is why I think in me practicing the horizon one, two, and three, this is the horizon three part of my own development.

[00:16:02] Veronica: And I think I think leaders sometimes forget that if you’re willing to say, I don’t know, it actually builds your credibility. It doesn’t hurt it because people, yeah. It’s, it shows you’re, you’re learning too, and willing to not know.

[00:16:14] Steve: Yeah. Just to make it official. I don’t know everything about quantum, I’m not a quantum expert, I’m here to learn and work with you guys and actually help.

[00:16:22] Veronica: So I know your background is in business and strategy. Are there any online learning tools that you’re using to learn about quantum? I know you said you’ve been interested in it for years.

[00:16:30] Steve: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:31] Veronica: Any self study courses you could recommend.

[00:16:34] Steve: Yes. And funny you say that, but MIT has a very good program that’s actually the program that when I started learning about Quantum and people were asking me questions and I definitely felt like an imposter back then

[00:16:48] I’m like, I had to learn this quick. I remember I was asked to go to one of my first board meetings to talk about Quantum, and I was reading up, I was nervous. I’m like, how am I gonna talk about this? And I didn’t wanna have that feeling. I’m not a big proponent of, Hey, fake it till you make it, especially when you know it’s your credibility and people believe in you. So I went back to school. I took this course at MIT which Will Oliver has, which is called “Quantum Fundamentals”, and then there’s “Quantum Realities”. There’s two courses in each. So it was about four courses and it really helped me prepare, but then I do

[00:17:24] seminars. I go to conferences. I watch videos. I do a lot of reading as well with The Quantum Insider, which is a really good source. And so all of that kind of helps me get more and more understanding of what’s coming. And then I liked it so much that I felt like there was a course missing on strategy, which is why when I approached MIT, they loved the idea.

[00:17:49] And two years later we rolled out “Quantum Computing Strategy and Impact.” Anybody that wants to do any of these courses I’m talking about, or any AI courses, anything in the MIT Pro catalog, you could just use all caps, HORIZONX and you can get a discount.

[00:18:04] I think right now it’s about a 17% discount, but normally it’s about 15%. And so I’m definitely a big proponent of continuous learning. I learned so much from doing these courses and it actually makes me feel like I’m back in school and it’s energizing for me.

[00:18:21] Veronica: I took the fundamentals one.

[00:18:23] I have, but that was a couple years ago. I did see that you’re teaching and it’s online, right? Is it asynchronous even? I think so. It’s built for working folks.

[00:18:32] Steve: It’s built for working folks. It’s 10 hours or less. And you have six weeks to do it. And I’m already getting a lot of feedback.

[00:18:39] Veronica: Great. Yes, we can certainly put that link in the show notes

[00:18:42] Steve: thank you. Yeah.

[00:18:43] And then HORIZONX all caps you get a good discount for your members.

[00:18:47] Veronica: You also recently launched The Quantum Index, which I was so glad when I found that. So The Quantum Index compares the readiness of global companies to adapt quantum, to adopt quantum technology or strategies. And right now you have the automotive industry, finance and life sciences. How did that project come about?

[00:19:07] Steve: I was actually at Davos and I was sitting on a train and I talked to this guy that runs an index on the global brands. Oh, and he was telling me about how he ranks global brands and how, and then I found out, they have a really great business model around it and I found that intriguing that a lot of brands obviously want to be the number one brand in the world and how, what they need to do that.

[00:19:30] And there’s a lot in brand equity and goodwill. And so I started thinking, okay, how do I apply that to quantum? The difficult part was how do we come up with an objective way to where companies can be rated against themselves on how well they’re doing? We’re still at the beginning stages of this for sure.

[00:19:49] So I would say yes, that list is where it is today, but I would suspect it’s gonna change and it’s gonna start changing quickly as more companies dive in and get involved.

[00:19:59] We want to go in there and understand what they’re doing and we use different benchmarks around patents, team size, research papers, and not only research papers, but how often their research papers get cited. And then like POCs and all this other stuff.

[00:20:15] ’cause you could write a research paper, but if it’s not being cited by others, it doesn’t have that importance. So, and then what we do is we have a matrix and a scoring mechanism and then we publish. And sometimes we get it right and some, but we’re still learning.

[00:20:29] We’re gonna be launching the energy industry very soon. So think about, oil and gas, renewable energies, all that. So that’s gonna be coming up next. And any of your listeners, big energy, reach out to me and make sure I know what you got going on so you can be part of the list.

[00:20:46] Veronica: Yes, it’s the quantumindex.com and you could look at the rank where companies fall in the ranking or you can look at the overall score, which covers workforce research and development and adoption. I was not surprised at the companies at the top of the list. I was a little surprised about the companies at the bottom just ’cause you, you think, oh yeah, they’re supposed to be so advanced, you have to make time for looking ahead and, and

[00:21:07] that’s it. Think about the future. Yeah. So yeah, it’s a very, it’s very helpful and it yeah, I think that is such a big challenge for the industry is what’s the measure, what’s the metric? And, quantum advantage or quantum volume or number of qubits. I think this forward looking, who’s most invested or who’s trying to get there, is a really helpful alternative to all those other metrics we’ve been talking about.

[00:21:29] I know you mentioned quantum security recently on your on LinkedIn and is it QuSecure that you mentioned that you’re working with them, you’re an advisor with them.

[00:21:38] Steve: Yeah, I am an advisor to them very great company actually. If you go on to QSecure and look at the About Us, you can see the other advisors.

[00:21:46]  The other advisors are just so impressive and you could just, it shows you how important governments and companies are taking this.

[00:21:56] Very impressive company, and it talks about post quantum cryptography,

[00:22:00] Veronica: My colleagues and I were talking about post quantum cryptography and the different announcements that have come out.

[00:22:04] I think Canada has a plan and the US government is, I think, expected to have a more detailed plan pretty soon. Of course, NIST is working on the algorithms. We were debating this timeline of 2030 by the time you should have your most sensitive systems protected?

[00:22:23] Yeah. What do you think about that 2030 timeline? Do you think that’s the best guess that’s out there? I feel, I think it is.

[00:22:29] Steve: Depending on who you hear or listen to the question is at what point do you feel comfortable saying, I’ll wait until they break and crack security

[00:22:41] before I act. And I could tell you that once somebody cracks the security, they’re not gonna be telling you, they crack the security because the value is that nobody knowing and they’ll be able to take everything that they want. So if you’re gonna wait till that day comes, then it’s game over.

[00:22:57] Because the reality is it’s going to take you a long time to understand the inventory or your cryptography in your organization. It’s gonna take you a while to prioritize which ones are most vulnerable, what you need to focus on. The way I see it and why I’m actually,

[00:23:15] really what QuSecure is doing is that I think this is going to be the largest upgrade in human history and it’s gonna be a big opportunity for people that wanna get engaged in this industry and start working at it. And it’s around protecting your data. I used to live in London,

[00:23:33] in a small town called Wimbledon. I’m sure you’ve heard of it, where the tennis is played. Mm-hmm. And back in 2019, right before the pandemic, they actually bought pandemic insurance. Oh, wow. And back then, I think there was only like a 1.2% chance that they would call on that insurance and that there would be a world shutdown and that’s 1.2% that would happen, right? A Black Swan event. There are experts out there saying that within the next five years, it’s about a 3% chance wow, that this could happen.

[00:24:04] Now, people are saying, Steve, 3%, that’s nothing. Don’t be an alarmist. The companies that actually get ahead of this and prepare now and start working through it are the ones that are going to do it at a cheaper rate, and it looks complex. If you’re gonna wait, it’s gonna get more expensive and it’ll get a lot more complex. And guess what? You’re gonna get in line because everybody’s gonna be going after the few people or the few organizations that can help you do that.

[00:24:28] It can’t be like cybersecurity where you wait for a breach to then say, oh okay we’ll start taking this seriously and making changes. I think that’s the scary part about it is there will be no press release when encryption is broken.

[00:24:40] Veronica: It will just happen and you won’t realize it until, like you said it’s too late.

[00:24:43] Steve: Yeah, and the fact that the government’s already telling you to be PQC compliant to give you an indication.

[00:24:50] My goal is not there to scare people, but to educate people.

[00:24:53] Veronica: Your work has always been bringing innovation to companies and helping them realize that and showing the promise and the challenges.

[00:25:00] And not scaring people, but educating them as you said. And do you find storytelling is a useful way to get that done? What are some of the stories you tell about quantum to show that promise?

[00:25:10] Steve: I think part of it is people wanna hear about my journey. So I tell ’em about my journey and I just like the Wimbledon story I just told you, it helps ingrain that in your head, right?

[00:25:20] People think about the percentages and, oh, that’s not a big percentage. I talk about my own life experiences. I think stories have a good way to grasp people’s attention. People can relate and it resonates with people. And I think storytelling.

[00:25:36] It’s such a powerful tool and if you can incorporate storytelling into your communications it’s a great way for people to associate and remember things and then they can relate to you as well.

[00:25:49] And so part of what I try to do is give, you know when people talk about quantum or they hear news about quantum. A lot of my friends say, Steve, you’re the first person I think about because that’s what you talk about. And that’s good because it’s about brand and association. HorizonX is less than three years old, but I’m trying to bring that brand to say, we’re a trusted brand to help companies really drive innovation and emerging tech.

[00:26:14] And so how do you compete with the bigger companies when you’re this small boutique company? And so that’s, I use storytelling in everything I do.

[00:26:23] Veronica: So what’s ahead for you in this second half of 2025?

[00:26:27] Steve: Now that I’ve moved to Dubai, it’s been about four months.

[00:26:30] I’m gonna get back to Dubai and really understand the region, how I can support the region. I’m really excited about us launching the energy list ’cause I think there’s gonna be a lot of attention, especially in the region around who are the top energy providers and then starting to refresh the other list, right?

[00:26:47] So automotive, financial services, life sciences, that was an interesting learning but that’s a story for another time, and starting to start refreshing those lists. To see who’s moving and why. I’ll also be joining McKinsey as a senior advisor,

[00:27:03] to be working with them on their quantum practice and their innovation. Oh, congratulations. Emerging tech. Thank you.

[00:27:09] I think there’s gonna be a lot more focus on the security side of it and even my own learning on cybersecurity. I’m excited. The future is quite exciting. It’s scary, but it’s exciting at the same time. And then obviously the MIT course, my goal is to make it like a front door for every executive that wants to learn quantum.

[00:27:28] Thank you so much for your time today. It’s been great to talk with you and learn more about HorizonX and quantum around the world. Thanks very much. Thank you very

[00:27:36] Steve: much.

[00:27:37] Veronica Combs: Thanks for joining us for another episode of the quantum spin by HKA. You can find all episodes on our website, hkamarcom. com. Of course, you can find us in all your favorite podcast platforms as well. Follow us on LinkedIn under HKA Marketing Communications if you have an idea for a guest, or if you’d like to be on the podcast yourself, you can reach me on LinkedIn, Veronica Combs, or you can go to our website and share your suggestion via the contact us page. Thanks for listening. Talk to you soon.